A real solution to the FL and MI problem

Feel free to post the number - this is an open thread and you're free to comment with substance. Substance would be an actual phone number.

Well you're right about one thing - the Democratic Party made this mess. And now, the democratic constituency has two choices.

1. Sit back and assume the DNC leadership (who created the mess) will clean it up. I'm not guessing that will happen. Howard Dean seems quite unable (or unwilling) to bring all affected parties together and come to an equitable solution.

2. Or - the democratic constituency can do something absolutely unheard of - they could get involved.

On a personal level - I'm going for getting involved. I'm going to pick up the phone on Monday and make some phone calls. I'm going to try and convince as many people as I can that we should all be demanding that the Democratic party invite the Carter Center into mediate and monitor a solution.

It's risky. I'm just one tiny little voice in the middle of nowhere USA. But, maybe, just maybe, if others act with me, our voices will affect some change.

As Obama has said:

But we know how much farther we have to go. We know it takes more than one night – or even one election – to overcome decades of money and the influence; bitter partisanship and petty bickering that's shut you out, let you down and told you to settle. We know our road will not be easy. …………………..

Hope is not blind optimism. I know how hard it will be to make these changes. I know this because I fought on the streets of Chicago as a community organizer to bring jobs to the jobless in the shadow of a shuttered steel plant. I've fought in the courts as a civil rights lawyer to make sure people weren't denied their rights because of what they looked like or where they came from. I've fought in the legislature to take power away from lobbyists. I've won some of those fights, but I've lost some of them too. I've seen good legislation die because good intentions weren't backed by a mandate for change.

The politics of hope does not mean hoping things come easy. Because nothing worthwhile in this country has ever happened unless somebody, somewhere stood up when it was hard; stood up when they were told – no you can't, and said yes we can.

So, I'm not going to wait around for an ineffective party leadership to do the right thing, I'm going to act out what I believe. It's risky - but - it's also the very reason I've supported Obama, because he understands that we have to stand up together and demand change.

So, on Monday, I'm going to call a few people and demand a little change. And just maybe if enough people decide to do the same thing the impossible will happen and we'll get a little change.

My solution to the problem is in this article. Personally, I have no power to sit all parties down and work out solutions to the questions you ask. But:

1. I can pick up a telephone and make a few phone calls.
2. I can ask others to do the same.
3. I can keep trying to get through. If the phone calls turn into voice systems, I can search for new phone numbers... I can keep reaching out to other people and hope that they can help me find phone numbers of organizations and people who should be calling the Carter Center.

Yes I - no WE - can :)

I know that sounds corny - but all the Obama supporters have been chanting "Yes we can" for months now. It's time to put up, or shut up. Obama has always said that change would not come easy, that we would have to work for change. Well now the work is upon us, and we are capable of making a difference.

O-K - you're right - there is no good solution. That I agree with. And it will be decided by the super delegates - you are right.

I'm not doing this because I think that it will make a difference in the final numbers. I'm doing this because I'm fed up with living in a country where our elections discount votes.

When the DNC made those rules (and FL and MI voted on them) no one thought it would matter. Everyone thought the decision would be made by super Tuesday. And now we're in a situation where (once again) the average voter had no say so in the matter and their votes don't count.

I've been following the discussion about voter fraud in OH.

Before the TX primary/caucus it came out that the Clinton campaign was coaching their constituents on how to take control of the caucus' ...

We all remember how Al Gore's campaign ended.....

I'm just fed up with living in a country that the rest of the world looks to as a model for democracy and we can't even run an election in a fair and balanced way.

Besides all of that - study the 1968 Democratic Convention (here)

Between the super delegates, FL and MI the democrats are setting themselves up for a horrid convention and turning this whole election over to the republicans. We (as a party) need to solve these problems now, before the convention.

I make no pretense of being neutral. There are very few neutral people this year. That is why we need the Carter Center.

Florida's governor himself said he wasn't going to listen to the DNC and there are always ways to get around things! His angle from the start was to cause disaray in the democratic party.

Raven - I can see both sides of the issue. As you said, the governors made the decision. One of them was republican and has a vested interested in throwing the democratic party into chaos. Bottom line - the average voter probably had no say-so in it what-so-ever.

It was idiotic to set the rules up the way they were set up in the first place. There are a lot of ways to penalize states that break rules without taking the vote away from an entire constituency.

I don't have any good ideas for a resolution. But, common sense tells me that if the DNC, FL, MI and the two campaigns (Clinton and Obama) don't come to some reasonable solution the convention is going to be a mess. Also, the DNC will risk loosing MI and FL as well. If I were an average citizen in those states and the DNC leadership and governor took my vote away from me, I'd be very, very, very angry.

And the fact that the Florida governor said he wasn't going to listen to the DNC is ample evidence of election tampering. That alone is reason to call in the Carter Center - because if there is a do-over - the last thing anyone needs is the Governor of FL tampering with the process.

(Just my thoughts on the subject)

Both of you have valid points. But.... bottom line ... we could discuss possible solutions until the end of time and it wouldn't change the facts on the ground.

The only thing we can do that MIGHT change the facts on the ground, that MIGHT make a difference, is to work together. WE can work together to draft the Carter Center. It won't be easy. Chances are the phone numbers listed above will lead to never-ending voice mail systems. So... we are going to have to work together.

If enough of us work together we might be able to find more phone numbers, more email addresses to the organizations who can invite the Carter Center in. But... we have to DO it TOGETHER.

We have to use today to get the word out and invite everyone we can think of into the draft process.

The ONLY HONEST chance for a fair solution here is the Carter Center.

They have a sterling reputation for their work in this area - I don't know any other organization that could come in and help find solutions and be trusted by all sides.

So... I am asking with humbleness (because I know it's a long-shot) but ... please consider
1. Spending some time today on your computer, hunting down phone numbers and such that we can call.

2. Spending time today hunting down email addresses of people that can call in the Carter Center - or can get the word out to their membership to help the draft process. (For instance: I've been trying to find legitimate contact information for MoveON. Their contact list is fantastic. One email to their contact list - from their leadership to act would make a REAL difference in this draft attempt.)

3. Post them here .... I'll grab them and put them into the main article (so people can see them at the top).

4. Email links to this article to as many people as you can think, your friends and family in the "real" world and your friends on this board.

Let's make an honest effort to see if we can get this draft process off the ground. If we fail, at least we've tried. If we don't fail - there may actually be a little bit of change in our world - that we can feel a part of. .....

Penny - Thank you for posting a comment about your reception. Also - if you can get me the phone numbers to different news organizations - I'll post them in the lead article.

If we all pitch in - we can make a difference here.

Thanks:

Pavilion

The only solution that will be acceptable to the voters of Michigan would include a real contest with a real vote. That may be a hard sell to the various parties with a vested interest.

Hello UncleFreddy:

The best chance of getting a fair vote is to invite the Carter Center into the process. I hope you'll consider making a few phone calls. Also, email a link to this article to all your friends in MI - ask them to make some phone calls as well.

Thanks suekzoo - This effort is getting a lot of help from some Obama listserves in MI and FL. People are making the phone calls. And consistently they're saying that the Obama campaign answers the phone and responds respectfully.

The fact that the DNC is polite, but non-responsive, is all the more reason to pursue inviting the Carter Center in. You are right

Momentum is developing to have a re-vote. It must be fair and transparent, and monitored by a neutral party would be ideal.

We can't count on the DNC, the Republicans in control of FL or the Clinton supporters pushing for this to be fair. A neutral party has to be involved, and if "we the people" invite them in, we stand a good chance of it succeeding. I'd like to see the DNC and the Clinton camp say "no" to former president Carter and the Carter Center. They are our best hope for fairness on the ground. Please - everyone - just take 10 minutes today and make some phone calls (especially to the Obama campaign, the DNC offices and the Pelosi office).

After you've called, come back and let us know how it went for you. Who you reached, what they said.

And lastly, email all your friends. Forward a link to this article and ask them to get involved.

You know, Dr Know - on a personal level I don't care if there is ever a revote. This whole mess sucks. It's been a screw up from start to finish.

I care about one thing - a solution that is fair and honest. We can sit on these discussion boards and debate until the end of time about what should have been done, what should be done, etc.. and none of our debating will ensure a fair and honest solution to a problem that the media is controlling (and forcing a re-vote).

So... instead of sitting around grousing and groaning about the problem, I'm actually doing something to try and get a sane voice in the whole process. And - maybe with a little sanity will come a solution you want - we do nothing - we let the rules stand as they are. I don't know.

What I do know - is that if I sit here and do nothing - the media and power brokers will do what they always do - they'll push the most sensational solution even though it's not the best or the honest solution.

Jimmy Carter and the Carter Center may be the one hope we have for a sane solution - and I'm going for it.

And as far as your question, "Why does the DNC have to negotiate? They made the rules with the input of everyone."....

Last I saw, Howard Dean - head of the DNC - came out and said he'd support a mail-in vote. Who do you suppose we can trust to count those votes? Who are you going to trust to make sure people don't vote twice, or that everyone who is entitled to vote gets to vote? Are you going to trust the FL republicans with that??????

Excellent question. Do you know if he's made a public declaration for either candidate yet?

I think if he's remained neutral thus far, I'd want to pursue this.

What needs to happen - and Howard Dean isn't going to do it - Nancy Pelosi tried - is for someone to sit down in a room with both Clinton and Obama and get to the core of what's going on here. (Memories of Jimmy Carter running between two cabins at Camp David to get a sign onto the Camp David accord - come to mind)

I can see Obama agreeing to sit down and get to the core of what's happening here. He has already said publicly that Dean should be doing more to mediate a resolution.

So - bottom line - if Carter has not declared one way or the other - he may be the one person (a former president and a back ground in mediation) to work towards a solution that is fair and viable.

Please understand - my efforts here are not intended to be seen as supporting a re-vote. I just simply see what's being played out by the power brokers - and if it comes to that - I want it done honestly and fairly.

I agree, I think we all want that.

Yes - I think we do....

The one chance for fairness here is the Carter Center and Jimmy Carter. If you can do anything at all to help - I'd appreciate it. Email your friends - ask them to make some phone calls. Go to MoveOn.org, find their suggestion page and email them. Write Moveon.org and tell them we need their help to get the Carter Center involved, that this election is being stolen right under our noses. They have the membership to bring national attention to what's happening.

Read this article , it's happening as we sleep tonight. The FL party bosses want this nailed down fast.

Oh - and the more you comment and vote on this article the better the chances of moving it "up the vine" so that others can see and act on it. Thanks.